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Reviews for Perfect Bait

By : ThePairingGuy
  • From ANON - Riii on September 30, 2010

    Oh, wow, over a year, really? I haven't even gotten time to do much more fandom stuff since then; checking back to see if you'd replied was on my mental to-do list for a while, along with checking out the kink meme and finishing my in-progress fics. (None of which I've been managing with much haste...) There was a story up on this account a while ago; I let my sister play around with one of my gen fics here, but she got bored of that and gave me the account (since I was thinking of posting some oneshots here), and I deleted her stuff so that I could gank a few of her themes and plotlines to edit into my version, which I've been working on rather than finishing the oneshots, so... yeah. I'm glad to hear you intend to return the favour, but it might not be possible for a while. I'm so glad you're happy about the review - I'm about equally addicted to reading, writing, and reviewing fic, 'worthy' or not. (The things that engage your interest engage your interest, you know?) Your comments about this being an older, weaker fic have me really looking forward to reading your next few, now.



    Jenna and Mia's talk was definitely interesting and enjoyable, though it did have the feel of something definitely written by a guy. Having said that, you might be interested to hear that it passed the Bechdel test quicker than anything I've written. (Which I mainly mention for levity, but also as a compliment, since it's an effect of the things that are good about your writing.)



    Oh, so the Babi thing was meant as don't shame the honoured dead, rather than don't shame the person who is offering you this reward by refusing him. The tone sounded way more like the latter, and I've read too many fics where people have seriously forgotten bigger details than that. XD The little hat thing - I think one of the characters here complained that the reward they got for Colosso last year was barely worth it (the little hat item that you get in the game if you win), which seemed spectacularly beside the point, when all four party members discussed Babi's proposals in terms of allegiances in the cutscenes.



    If you're coming across as rude anywhere (which you're not, for the most part), it's only by saying that it's 'common sense' that women wouldn't be able to enter Colosso. In game canon, Master Feh and Master Hama are both martial arts masters (Hama even taught Feh how to use Chi, which he teaches to his students at the dojo), and all the NPCs that talk to them take the tone that of course they are the authorities that they are. Likewise, Feizhi studies at the dojo, Menardi is a travelling warrior, Mia decides to travel and fight during the game, and nobody ever says anything sexist about their choices or capabilities, though presumably everyone is aware that, yes, they are women. There are a lot of NPC families where the men have more traditionally male roles (the shopkeeper in Imil whose husband is one of the lumberjacks in Kolima, the Kimbobo farmers who became warriors when Akafubu decided to whip up a raiding party in a hurry, etc), but women who make unusual choices don't appear to get any flak for it or have their choices limited in any way, as far as you an tell by speaking to and reading the minds of every NPC in the game. You can't extrapolate "of course women aren't allowed to be warriors" from real life, either. Just the other day, I was reading a book of Russian folk tales my grandma gave me, and it was full of tales of atamans and boyars and bogatyrs and polianitsas; google Eurasian Studies 201 Handouts: Byliny for a quick definition of the terms. I'd appreciate it if you didn't claim that it's common sense for women to be controlled and infantilized in a canon where they face even less misogyny than in the real-life cultures that have allowed women to fight (including our own).



    The anal scene was meant as a parody of all those ridiculous scenes where they love it immediately? Heh, I could tell it was meant as a comedic spin on things, but it still came across to me as just as brain-breaking because the woman in this instance didn't hate it more. Maybe the joke worked for other readers; comedy's subjective that way.



    The threesome was supposed to be a way for Mia to get into a mutual relationship with a guy she was interested in, as I understood it; Isaac was as squicked out as I was by the idea of it as a 'reward', until he realised that it was actually his friends' attempt to do something real and fun together. If he had only been looking to use them as if they really were anonymous whores, and hadn't actually cared whether his friends enjoyed the game/scene that they'd set up, then I couldn't have believed that he ever saw them as real people even when they were 'friends', and I certainly couldn't feel any warmth toward him as a remotely likeable character. Mia's opinions filter the information given to the audience, but if the result had been "I don't know why Mia's chasing that bastard", I wouldn't have enjoyed any of the pairings here. As it was, Isaac came across as genuine and fairly sweet, and a bit self centred in the way all teenagers automatically are until he'd had time to think. I like Jenna just as much as Isaac here (do you know how hard it is to find bi threesome fic?), which is why it's so jarring that Mia's opinions make so much of the narrative so insulting to her. You're not alone in finding it hot when characters are "a little bitchy" to each other, though I only enjoy it between two female characters when it comes from an UST-rich personality clash, rather than sheer depressing misogyny. Mia goes far beyond 'a little bitchy' (teasing, snarking, flirting) with Jenna, she truly, viciously hates her, at least at some points. If you were only writing for guys, this feedback probably wouldn't be useful, but this was so close to being uber-hot... There just seemed to be so much disgust behind her hatred. (The only sort of disgust that works in hot hatesex is disgust at one's own desires, etc. Physical lust, not vomity squicky visceral disgust.) If you're saying Mia wasn't meant to come across as outright hating Jenna... then wtf, I don't know. I hope the feedback is still useful to you, though.



    Mia's personality clash with Jenna, while not exactly UST, still involves teasing and tsundere chemistry and warm fuzzy moments of rare understanding, at some points. Catfights where there's a patronising "these are just women, they're not a danger to us guys, so let's watch as if it were absolutely no different to a stripshow" attitude squick me through the weight of the misogyny, but female-female fights where male characters get out of the way for their own safety, try to break it up as they would any other fight, worry about the safety of the human beings involved, etc, can be hot even if the guys also get turned on by it. (Every bit as hot as the awesomest, UST-richest fights between badass guys, in fact. It's harder to find hot male-female fights than same-sex ones, what with those having the worst kind of cultural baggage, but they have just as much potential if they're done right. You can write to please more people than you might expect at once, if you know what to avoid and what to include. Hence the feedback.)



    I've never personally known a teenage girl who wasn't aware that sex could get her pregnant, and I was a teenage girl, but I was raised in a good area at a good school, and there are always people who don't care or don't think things through, so, meh. It's not an unbelievable part of the fic, it's just a bit surprising given that Jenna's in a position to be relatively worldly, to give the future more thought than usual (the apocalypse, her family), and to ask the healer she's talking to about the things women often talk to herbalist/healer types about in this genre. If Jenna's own reactions to the outcome had been given space at the end, and had sounded natural, that would have been enough. I guess that's probably in the sequel.



    The irony is kind of satisfying in narrative terms, despite being frustrating in other ways. Which may in itself be ironic. Gahh, it's getting late, not sure if I can end on an eloquently positive enough note to give the right idea about how much I enjoy this sort of discussion, how much I liked about your writing, and how much I'm looking forward to the sequels. Unless I managed that there? G'night.


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  • From ThePairingGuy on July 19, 2010
    A reply to my last couple reviews:

    @ Ethan:
    It's times like these that I feel really guilty about writing smut fic. I always assumed the people who come to this site know about sex and pregnancy, the reality of what's in these stories. Now you're telling me you think the only way to tell someone is pregnant is by a modern pregnancy test? I don't know if you're underage, if your school's sex education failed to teach you anything, or if you're just messing with me, but I really hope it's the last of those three possibilities.

    Assuming you aren't just messing around with me, though: The Golden Sun setting isn't even remotely like 2000 B.C. They didn't have ships like that in 2000 B.C., they certainly didn't have BOOKS, etc., etc. You're off by several thousand years.

    Also, though the more I think about the more sure I am that you're just messing with me, that criticism doesn't make sense to begin with - two months, nine months, it makes no difference to the plot. Your whole criticism is that I wrote "two" instead of "nine".

    Just to reassure you that I'm not taking this all too seriously, I did get a kick out of your suggestion about the tent and campfire. LOL, how would that possibly work against Jenna, who's a FIRE adept? Guess you'll have to come up with another way to screw Jenna. :)

    @ Riii:
    I'm sorry, it's been over a year since your review, but I was hoping to return the favor by reviewing one of your stories, and include my reply there. You never posted a story on this site, so... Well, you'll probably never read this, but thank you so much for your very detailed review. Honestly, I feel unworthy to have gotten it, especially for this, one of my weakest fics.

    Thanks for the praise about Mia and Jenna's talk. That was one of my favorite scenes to write, but since this was my first fic, I didn't think I could pull off an interesting and believable conversation between two members of the opposite sex. Glad to hear that at least one person really liked it!

    However, I have to correct you on a few of the points you made. Apologies if I come off as rude at any point:

    Lord Babi - Yes, Babi is dead. Hence, all the more reason not to shame him. Iodem isn't arrogant enough to think his own name is as respected as Babi's yet.
    Women in Colosso - It never comes up in the game, but only because it's common sense that women wouldn't be allowed in Colosso. Similarly, just because it never comes up in the game that Menardi is a woman doesn't make her canonically a man.
    The Little Hat - What little hat?
    "you might as well try not to contradict canon, break suspension of disbelief" - I don't know what you're talking about there.
    Anal Sex - I've never known anyone, relaxed or no, to enjoy anal sex. I've tried it twice myself. I hated it, the women I tried it with hated it more. What I'm getting at is, the whole anal sex part wasn't supposed to be realistic, in fact it was supposed to be utterly ridiculous. It's basically me poking fun at how in porn fics, everyone who tries anal always loves it, even if the second before they were totally frightened/grossed out by the idea. It's always "Wait! Don't do me in the ass! I'll do anything you want, just don't do me in - Ohhhh, that's heaven." :)
    "Isaac wasn't focusing on how many orgasms his partners were getting until the morning after, but he doesn't get all that hate for being 'selfish'" - Of course he doesn't, Mia is in love with him. (It wouldn't be fair to call him 'selfish' anyway, because the threesome was supposed to be a reward for him.) She doesn't hate on him for being inexperienced for the same reason.
    Avoiding Pregnancy - As was implied at the ending, Mia had no objection to Isaac getting her pregnant, so she had no reason to rely on anal/handjobs. As for Jenna, like you mentioned, she's inexperienced, and a teenager. Hardly any teenager goes into a one-night-stand thinking that they might become pregnant.
    Mia Hating Jenna for getting Pregnant - Mia doesn't hate Jenna at all. She's just frustrated that Isaac has to marry her.
    Mia Being Bitchy Throughout Fic - While I can understand how you feel differently, I actually find it rather hot when women are a little bitchy, especially when it's over a man. And I'm pretty sure most guys feel the same, hence why cat fights are so popular.

    You're probably right that the GS gang would have had Mia and Isaac take care of the baby or come up with some other better arrangment. I guess I didn't think of that... To be honest, I just couldn't resist the irony of Isaac marrying Jenna as a direct result of Mia's scheme. This was my first published fic, and I can definitely see in retrospect that it's not a very good one. Not that the stuff I've written since is brilliant or anything, but I have learned some as the years have gone on. Thanks again for the comments.
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  • From ANON - Ethan on July 16, 2010
    This was an icredable work, the plot itself was enough to keep someone reading, and the sex scenes were written better than anything I've seen on this entire website, the only problem that I have is the ending. Seriously, first off this was back in like 2000bc, they didn't have pregnancy tests that were accurate after two months. Secondly, why ruin a perfect story of seduction and betrayal with a plot twist like that, it definatly ruined the whole thing. In fact I demand that you go back and write a better ending where Isaac ends up with Mia and Jenna gets figuratively screwed. Something involving a tent and a campfire might work out well.
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  • From Riii on February 08, 2009
    You know, I saw your reviews on a few other fics in the section recently (I kinda scan reviews to figure out which fics I might want to skim or come back to read), where you pointed out that things were completely OoC, not funny, misogynistic, lacking plot, etc. I skimmed the shorter ones, and pretty much agreed, in that 'why are there so few people pointing this out?' way. What with that and the sorta hot ratings paragraph on your profile, I was looking forward to seeing what you'd written.

    Isaac is still misspelled as 'Issac' for much of the story. The guards say that Isaac would shame Lord Babi if he turned down his reward, but Lord Babi is dead.

    He died when Karst, Agatio and Alex visited Tolbi. Alex informs Kraden and the others of this in Champa, and implies that his group may have killed Babi to dissuade Felix's group from exploring the world at such a leisurely pace, urging them to focus on their quest instead. Even when Babi was alive, he ran Colosso as a means of securing power over the continent; the winners were recruited into his army, which he was using to pressure the Laliverans into building a lighthouse to help him get back to Lemuria. Babi only let Isaac enter the tournament because he saw Isaac's group as an alternative means of finding Lemuria; when Isaac won, rather than recruiting him, Babi asked him to take on another quest. One of the NPCs wonders whether Isaac, having won Colosso, has to work for Lord Babi now. Babi didn't enter anyone else in Isaac's group into the competition because it wouldn't have worked any further in his favour (and they couldn't enter themselves, having already missed the try-outs). It's certainly likely that Iodem would carry on the yearly contest to keep Tolbi prosperous and powerful, but he would do so while acknowledging that Babi was dead, and he could set the rules however he liked. If he was still grateful towards Isaac and Mia and the others, he could have let any of them enter. It's not even canon that unmarried female warriors aren't allowed to compete or join the army afterwards; it never comes up, leaving the author free to decide to write it either way or leave it unmentioned and irrelevant. If Mia and Jenna simply hadn't wanted to enter, they could have come up with their plan all the same; explicitly telling the reader that they 'weren't allowed' is a bit of a slap in the face when I'm trying to enjoy the fic. And the little hat was never the point, for anyone. I know this is porn fic, but if you're going to describe Colosso in any detail, you might as well try not to contradict canon, break suspension of disbelief, or actively turn people off, right?

    It was nice to see Mia and Jenna giggling over Saturos, even without seeing the whole anecdote; you rarely see that part of the quest brought up unless they're being uber-angsty about it. :p

    A lot of the dialogue between Mia and Jenna was interesting, for the first chapter; the bickering over "You share with me, and I'll share with you", with Jenna being interested in the conversation; Mia not wanting to talk about her child, and Jenna being trustworthy enough not to tell anyone else despite being all flustered and teenage and the two of them finding it hard to get along; the way Jenna apologised after insulting Mia for being experienced, realizing that she'd been out of line, and Mia's attitude towards her softening in return. I mean, they were about to share a bed; it was about time they figured out how to get along. I really hadn't liked the way Mia kept thinking of Jenna as that bitch; she was introducing the less experienced girl to something scary and fun and life-changing, and Jenna had sort of placed herself in Mia's hands, letting her psyche her up and talk her into it and call bluff on her cranky defensiveness.

    But throughout the rest of the story, even though Mia was in control and Jenna kinda trusted her and only thought of Isaac as a friend, Mia's thoughts keep referring to her as pretentious bitch in a hateful way that's kinda disturbing. Honestly, reading about an inexperienced character getting all flushed and surprised and happy at being fingered for the first time, and finding that the internal dialogue of the character doing that to her is all hateful and pitying and venomous... You might as well write about kids getting slapped for giggling, or whores fucking with total emotional detachment, it was such a shock of cold water. Getting fucked in the ass hurts like hell unless you're relaxed; if Jenna had been relaxed enough to enjoy it, it's pretty much impossible to believe that Isaac would have been in that much pain and Jenna in none at all. Bad sex could have put Isaac off from thinking of Jenna in romantic terms without the need for such violent Jenna-bashing in the fic, especially since Jenna didn't think of him that way anyway; it's easy enough for sex to be awkward and unfulfilling and embarrassing, and even accidentally painful, without it being that bad. Isaac wasn't focusing on how many orgasms his partners were getting until the morning after, but he doesn't get all that hate for being 'selfish'; if Jenna were actually attracted to her partner the way Isaac was to Mia, I can only imagine she'd have felt more romantic the next day, rather than freaking out over sex that she'd been pressured into. And ending a chapter with an inexperienced girl literally looking 'traumatised' by a bad sexual experience... I didn't get the impression that you were trying to make it sickening, but that was the effect.

    Mia has feelings for Isaac, and goes to great lengths to look sexy and available and seductive, defining herself as a good fuck for others to enjoy so often in the first chapter that it verges on disturbing even though she makes it clear that she enjoy the sex herself, too. Isaac has feelings for Jenna, and doesn't seem to have worked on his own attractiveness or put himself forward beyond asking for a 'casual date', until he walks in on a scene where he only expects it to last for as long as he's hard -- and where he acts young and overwhelmed and inexperienced without getting a load of hate directed at him for it. The double standard is really offputting. Large parts of the sex scenes were hot, but there were so many little things throughout them that kept killing the buzz... I hope this feedback is useful to you. I hope you get what I'm trying to say -- all criticism is directed at the fic, you know? Younger writers tend to mix up criticism of their story with criticism of them and take everything as a flame, but you seem more mature than that, from your reviews etc. I wouldn't be trying to give you useful feedback otherwise.

    Mia has no family left in Imil in the game; if her parents didn't tell her where they sent her child before they died, she might never know. You didn't overdo the angst; her body language communicated that she wasn't really comfortable talking about it, working with the dialogue. And it emphasised how young she still was, really. That bit of backstory obviously didn't have any further place in the plot, but it's still one of the most powerful scenes the story left me with -- the fact that she never had control over that part of her life, and currently has no way of getting that control back, of even knowing whether her child is still alive. I... don't think I can really bring myself to read the sequel tonight (though I will at some point; I'm too curious not to), but that part of Mia's story seemed to most call for something more.

    But, uh, for Jenna to get knocked up by sex that she was pressured into... Well, for one thing it raises the question of why they weren't relying more on oral, anal, handjobs etc for their fun, especially given that the fic is set in a world without modern contraception, and especially since Mia already had experience of that risk. And single motherhood in a small, judgemental rural community isn't something I'd wish on my worst enemy -- and for Mia to hate Jenna for trying to avoid that, when she was the one who talked her into getting knocked up in the first place with all those teasing insults? Ugh. Isaac is moral, but he's also fiercely strong-willed; it's odd to read about the boy who learned to defy the Wise One coming home too cowed to even argue with the human Elders. If the trio were getting along better by that point, I'd be wondering why they couldn't have avoided such a trite sad ending by deciding their own fates; they could surely have come up with better ideas between themselves if they were still working together with the strength of opinion that they showed in the game (the canon doesn't give them much personality, but it gives them strength without question) -- letting Isaac and Mia marry and raise the baby with Jenna acting more like an aunt, or long-term polyamory, or persuading Jenna's parents to raise the kid, or whatever. (Since Jenna's parents had only just reunited with her after being kidnapped for three years, you could have given them a more specific characterisation than 'general harsh villager type'. Vale didn't let people travel -- their world view would have been shaken. They could have been over-protective, or over-worried, or over-lenient, scared of losing her again or scared of upsetting her, anything interesting...)

    In summary: interesting fic, with sex that would have been really hot if it weren't for the disturbing way the characters were treated every few paragraphs, and with a plot that often seemed to pass up interesting options in favour of bitchy ones.

    ~Rozzlynn
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  • From Streti on December 04, 2008
    Just what do you think you're doing? Stop spamming already!
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  • From Chang on November 22, 2008
    You know, I had almost forgotten that I had written these GS stories. In all honesty I had written them a long time ago and as a result it pales in comparison to what I can do now.

    I kind of always had a bad view towards my GS fics, as they were my very first ones and they tended to be complete crap. I think it was because I didn't really grasp the idea of fan-fiction properly. I could see why: I didn't really dig deep into trying to impose deeper meanings in my stories and wrote pretty much for the sake of sex/whatever. I guess it could be said that I didn't really care for the characters.

    After looking back to these pieces, I really think I can say that I've come a long way since day one. I always believed it, but I don't think I could have ever said it out loud to myself or something.

    Thanks for your deep and thoughtful reviews.
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  • From OmegaX on October 27, 2008
    Aww.... downer ending makes me sad!!!


    Worst of all, until you showed Mia in the pew, I thought that her and Issac were getting married, instead of him and Jenna. Damn you for writing it so well!

    (Any chance of an alternate ending??)
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  • From ThePairingGuy on October 25, 2008
    The thing is, Mia doesn't _have_ a character in the games. You pick her up from a village where she's healing sick people, she has some nominal feelings of guilt over Mercury Lighthouse being lit, and that's it. So basically all you have is a strong sense of duty to other people. Everything else is just fanon.

    Isaac's name is now fixed in all chapters. Thanks. (Incidentally, it has nothing to do with checking spelling carefully; if you'd looked carefully you'd have noticed that I spelled his name "Issac" every time.)

    Many thanks for the reviews, guys!
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  • From OmegaX on October 24, 2008
    While I will say I'm not as fond of 'how' promiscuous Mia is in this, it was either her or Jenna I could see in that role, and you've done a good job justifying it. (I tend to see Jenna in a role like that, with Mia as the somewhat repressed version, venting her lusts mainly on Issac alone)

    While I'm not a fan of Valeshipping in any way, how you've shown it as onesided works for the story, as does the onesided Mudshipping.

    I'm quite looking forward to the next chapter.
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